Hey guys, it's Jen from Pincurl Girls. And this is the GIRLBRAVE podcast. I am so excited about today's guest. This is someone who my daughter and I have been talking about for a few years now. And I went out on a limb and sent her an Instagram DM and asked her if she'd be on the show. She said, yes, I am so excited that I got to interview the legendary roller derby star...Bonnie Thunders!

Bonnie Thunders is considered to be one of the greatest players of modern day roller derby. She has worked very hard from the beginning from being named rookie of the year to the most valuable player of the year. She's won best jammer award multiple times. And she's also won the Derby News Network Reader's most valuable jammer award. Several times. Bonnie Thunders also has represented the United States in international play having been selected for the team USA roster for the roller Derby world cup in both 2011, 2014 and 2018. Let's meet Bonnie!

All right, Welcome Bonnie Thunders to the GIRLBRAVE podcast! I'm super excited to have you here. My daughter has been following you for a long time and after doing some research. You have been called the LeBron James of modern day Roller Derby. What does that feel like when you hear that?

Well, first off, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here on the show with you. Yeah. When I hear some comparisons to the professional athletes, it feels gratifying for sure, but like it legitimizes our sport in a way, but at the same time it feels unreal and kind of strange because we're pretty far from a professional sport, even though we definitely, you know, train very hard and take it seriously. It still feels a little bit removed from reality.

Well, yeah, looking on the outside in you guys are just as fierce and just as tough.

So I'd love the names that Derby girls come up with. How did you come up with your name and does giving yourself that persona changed the way you feel about yourself?

My name is taken from a guitarist from a punk rock band. His name is Johnny Thunders. And he was in New York Dolls as well as had his own band. And honestly it was just it's a musician that I like and I thought that the name sounded cool. And when I started derby in 2006 that was kind of all you were really looking for at the time was like a cool sounding name. So I, you know, Johnny Thunders had a pretty tragic life, so it's not like I'm somebody who I'm trying to amplify his sort of life or anything like that.

But for me, I guess the name itself didn't really change the way I felt about myself, but maybe change the way that like, maybe others perceived, perceive you, you know, like if you have, depending on your name, it kind of give somebody a different first impression of you. So I think that it's more about others' perception of you than like maybe your own for me anyways, than my own perception of myself.

Yeah. That's a good distinction. You give it so much when you're out there skating. And I was watching some videos yesterday and you're like, I'm going to give it as much as, as much as I can and whatever people ask me, I'm going to give it to them. Where does that drive come from? And how do you think you could teach or coach that perhaps into a young athlete who maybe doesn't have that natural instinct?

Well, yeah, the drive, I mean, it definitely comes from a place of wanting to do the best that I can, especially in the team sport, thinking about being the best teammate that I can be for my teammates and also performing at my top level because others are depending on me. So I think that's really where it comes from is, obviously like everyone, I think a lot of people who want to play derby want to be the best that they can be. But for me, it's very much about like being the best for others. Not necessarily just doing it because I want notoriety or I want, you know, fame or whatever comes from being good at roller derby, but it really is about being, being the best I can be for my teammates.

So yeah, I think sometimes I've been told that I have like a bit of a cold persona because I'm very serious and I like to skate for the job that I have to do. But I think my teammates can attest to, I have, I definitely have a warm personality. It's just for them and not so much for everyone else.

Yeah. When I was younger, I played or tried to play team sports and I actually stopped playing because I didn't want to let down my team. Do you have, do you have any advice for maybe someone that's not all that great and, and, and is nervous about making their team worse perhaps by being on it?

Well, I would say that there's a lot of elements to building a good team and not all of them include being the best skater or the best derby player. And sometimes being the best teammate on the track and off the track is better than being a really good skater. And I don't think it's valued so much, which is unfair, but that's sort of life itself is we don't value the people who are really good at supporting others. We value shiny, shiny stars. I think that it's important to know that for every like great skater that's on the track, there's at least five other people or four other people backing that person up. And without you that person can't be the best. So a team full of superstars is not nearly as effective as a team full of good teammates.

I love that. Thank you. I wish I would've heard that when I gave up.

Yeah. that's sad to hear that.

Yeah. You are a fearless jammer. What's the feeling you have inside when you're out there skating.

Let's see when I'm out there skating, it sounds weird, but I don't feel a lot. I try not to let too many emotions overcome me in those moments because I have to play at a very Zen place. If I get too emotional, then that's when I think that's a lot of the times when I pick up fouls, when I do things that aren't the best decisions. So, I really focus on being as calm and relaxed as possible, which is obviously easier said than done. And, you know, I think that a lot of practice has gotten me to that point. I still get nervous. I still obviously get passionate in moments, but I always have to try to come back to that really calm Zen place.

And just really look to my teammates for, for that same emotional state. You know, if we get too fired up, it could definitely, it can definitely hurt, but then you also don't want to have too little energy or emotion because you still play below what you need to play. So it's really finding a balance, but I think the nice thing about a team sport is that everybody plays at a different level. So you have some skaters who really need to play at like 110% to do the job. And others can't play at 110%. Otherwise they're going to be in the box or just like not doing the right thing in the moment.

So I think, again, looking at like your team and kind of figuring out where you fit in in there. But for me, yeah, it really is playing in just sort of a Zen relaxed, calm place of like repetition and just like comfort.

And how do you get into that Zen spot?

Yeah, I think that a lot of that comes from practice and physically practicing in that mental state and putting myself in practice in situations of stress and anxiety. So, you know, when I practice, I really focus on failing because I want to figure out how to fail and practice and that way in a game I don't I'm not failing for the first time and then panicking but you know, so many people in practice want to be the best in practice, and we all should bring our best selves to practice and try a hundred percent for sure, but it doesn't help us to win every drill. It really actually helps to put yourself in the most vulnerable place in practice with teammates that you trust so that you can then you, your body and your mind knows how to get out of those moments. And when you're in a pressure situation in a game, you'll have that experience.

How do you get yourself to be able to be in a failure type position while you're in practice?

I think it's about like physically letting somebody beat you to then have to figure out how to beat them because you know, derby is a bit of a chess match, right? And so I'm always looking at like, what is this skater going to do? And what do I need to do first in order to prevent that skater from like executing their thing. So in practice, I test a lot with like, letting people win moments, not, I don't want to say letting people win moments, that sounds like I'm always winning, but letting somebody get me in a block in a position that I don't want to be in to then figure out how to get out of it. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I don't think we let ourselves, or even say out loud that we want to be able to fail, but as, as we all learn, the more you fail, the more you learn. Right? So I totally, I love that, but I have never heard that necessarily put in those words and especially when you're practicing for a sport.

Yeah. I think it's really important to let yourself be vulnerable with your teammates. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, especially these days with Instagram and social media, you know, there's so much pressure, I feel like for girls to just be so perfect at the very first time and, and not be not show any vulnerabilities. And so I appreciate you saying that because I do feel like that needs to be said because you are definitely a role. And I think that helps when girls can hear that.

Right. I think it's important too, for coaches and for leagues to create a space that allows people to be vulnerable without being punished and not always celebrate the best, the best, the best, you know, our culture is so obsessed with the best being the best, the biggest, the greatest, but, you know, we have to kind of break down, break down those things and not really focus on that because it's not the end goal that, that that's important, you know, it's the, the process and the path to get there.

Yeah. And the experience as you go through it.

Yeah.

So the reason I really want to talk to you is I was just looking at my daughter playing basketball right now, and, some, some girls (she's in sixth grade), some girls are super fierce out there and just, we'll just do everything. And then there's other girls who aren't as fierce.

And as, as we grow up, as women, I don't feel like we're taught that as much to be aggressive, to go out there and just, and give it that, that, that fierceness. And I know at one point I talked to my daughter and I said, why don't you use your derby and get up and use your body? And she goes, well, that's my friend. I didn't want to hurt her.

What would you say to my daughter or other girls out there that aren't naturally... have that aggression to let themselves have it, because I know she has it, she's body slammed before, and she's tough, but she's not letting herself do that.

Right, yeah. Fear of what others think is a big thing, like you mentioned. And I think that having a conversation with your friends and your teammates about challenge. Challenging each other is really important. Also, I think it gets complicated because personal competition with your teammates is hard to deal with. And it can feel really icky sometimes to have that relationship with, you know, to have a competitive relationship with somebody that you care about.

So I think it's really important to talk about it. And to really acknowledge that, like, you know, you're going hard on each other to make each other better because at the end of the day, again, it's a team sport. So moving into playing against other teams, you want to have, you want to be able to have that mindset and not worry so much when you're playing against another team of what, you know, you might offend somebody because you need to walk off the field or the, the track or whatever your sport is, and, and still feel good about your performance.

And you know, that you respected your teammates, but at the same time in the moment, those people are not on your team, and you need to be able to not worry too much about offending or hurting someone if you're just really in it, in it for the sport, you know?

But respect is, is really important within team when you're playing against other skaters, you want to make sure that, like I said, you can walk away and be like, you know, everything I did out there like I'm okay with, and I feel good about my decision making in the moment, and I don't regret anything. So you never want to have regrets after a game.

And that's great. Yeah.